Relationships do not, realistically speaking, exist in a hierarchy. It's possible to be deeply bonded to multiple people with completely different contexts. I have a "best friend" who is most definitely closer to me than my current lover. And neither of them detract from each other.
But yeah, I get that people can fill different niches, but I see the niches she seems to be filling with this tulpa as niches I thought I was filling/supposed to fill, and it hurts to have that taken away.
The notion of them filling a void isn't a bad thing. It's perfectly possible for an extremely close lover not to be able to relate to you in exactly every way.
7:21 PM
You wouldn't say that having a child who you love as much as your partner is somehow replacing them for example.
rayan 246
She has specifically told you that she is doing this to fill this niches that you were supposed to fill?
Indirectly. She has said that there was a void in her that this seems to be filling, and she's said that this is a close companion and friend, but I have expressed long before this whole debacle that those are roles that I want to fill.
Here's the thing, while a tulpa or other headmate can definitely be a reassuring and comforting companion to share things with it isn't really the same as having an external person that you can talk to that you don't already know everything about and can offer even more different perspectives than a tulpa/headmate can because they've had a separate set of experiences to draw from.
I feel fairly confident that your role in her life is not in jeopardy, at least not if it wasn't already for other reasons. That said I know that doesn't change how you feel, or your fears, certainly not immediately at least, and those are entirely understandible feelings to have on your part.
7:22 PM
(sorry, didn't mean to reply to the first time)
Zen
You wouldn't say that having a child who you love as much as your partner is somehow replacing them for example.
I'm not sure you desire to fill those roles, because you say she fills yours, is a healthy one. Surely, it should be that your partner is fulfilled that matters regardless as to how that is done - within determined boundaries, some decide exclusivity regarding sexual partners etc.
7:25 PM
If you have a partner who is happy and functional then you have more of them?
To play devil's advocate though - a child would require both of your support, not just theirs. To take it outside of the context of a dependent relationship - A brother or sister can often relate to their sibling better than a lover, but a brother or a sister (unless you're a Lannister or something) cannot provide the specific form of intimacy a lover can.
7:27 PM
What I'm getting at is relationships are unique and don't usually detract from one another unless they're in direct opposition. If they were making a tulpa as a romantic partner; for example.
I read alot.. I suggest this book often as it helped me and my relationships so much. Its called The Soulmate Experience, its not as flipperty as it sounds off hand.
Iscah
Indirectly. She has said that there was a void in her that this seems to be filling, and she's said that this is a close companion and friend, but I have expressed long before this whole debacle that those are roles that I want to fill.
I have told her, yes. Just the other day, even. I am... not recalling her response right now.
7:48 PM
As to the tulpa threatening my roles, it's still less about that and more about that I've iterated multiple times that it hurts me when she takes this idea farther and yet she keeps doing it.
7:49 PM
I could have maybe been fine with it. I don't and can't know now, because she didn't respect that boundary.
Did they at any point actually agree to the boundary? Because if they did that in particular that's definitely a breach of trust. But I'd caution you against believing boundaries exist where they have not been agreed upon, that's a big issue with a lot of relationships.
As to the child scenario, whether it's a child or a tulpa, it affects my life pretty directly, even if I'm not needed for its development, so I'd still want to be consulted.
She acknowledged the boundary, I think. Even if she didn't acknowledge the initial boundary, she has been made aware numerous times that I can't deal with her taking this any farther. I know she's acknowledged them because she's said that she doesn't know why the things hurt me.
Acknowledgement is not the same as agreement. If I say "This thing you're doing is making me upset" and they don't specifically say "Okay I won't do that thing." That's not agreement. This is why communication is such a big issue with relationships - a lot of people skirt around being concrete and clear with language. They say something noncommittal, but empathetic to get you off their back and then do the thing because it's something they need or want.
Ideally before any of this happened there should've been a clear discussion where they said "Yes I'll stop" or "No, I need to do this." And if that's something that wasn't communicated it's something you definitely both need to work on.(edited)
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8:06 PM
On that point it's perfectly fine for them to change their mind later - but it should also be communicated.
This is less asking for help, and more out of genuine curiosity: if the host is neurodivergent, does the tulpa share the same neurodivergence? Personally, my host has ADHD and I probably have it too, but I think my symptoms are more inattentive. Honestly, I wish I didn't (no offense to people with ADHD- it's just very impractical in my particular life situation)- but is it even possible for a tulpa of an ADHD host to not inherit that?
I believe I have undiagnosed ADHD, and my experience is that that as long as they are not switched in they are capable of acting outside of it. As soon as they take charge of the direction of the brain though, they start to procrastinate; forget; and so on; and it starts to become clear they have the same limitations as well. That said - the fact they, and I, are an outside perspective looking in is still helpful though - We often act as motivators to one another when switched out.
I think it's possible to order one's life so that ADHD no longer causes significant issues, but to do so completely would take a total reordering of society
2:16 AM
Oh, I limit my hyperfixations and stims a lot more than Robin, but that doesn't necessarily make it better
2:17 AM
They've basically gotten through school on pure hyperfixation energy, which is certainly a strategy
That's how I operate as well. Though my successes have definitely been varied when relying on hyper focus since it's difficult to direct meaningfully. Tulpamancy more than anything though, has pointed out how our brain works. And it hasn't all been easy - I ended up dissipating my tulpa for a time and then coming back to to it. I was never fixated upon tulpamancy until returning to it with a different mindset, and the difference was night and day in every way.
Yeah idek how Mai became a thing in my head I just thought about him a lot and haven't stopped since lmao
2:30 AM
But yeah, brain functioning, it is a strange thing
2:31 AM
Usually I'm just,,, trying to hyperfixate on at least something school related with partial success, and barring that I just try to get the teacher to like me haha
2:34 AM
And ok I guess Mai has talked to the English teacher a bit about Dorian Gray and vampires and stuff but I feel like talking excessively to the teachers is usually more of my thing
In cases of DID/OSDD, different alters can have things to different degrees. I've personally got a few things that are so separate/compartmentalized, that I'd say I don't have them, when others in my system do. Its likely just to lesser and easier to manage/ignore degrees tho. same brain, afterall.
I'd expect anything chemical or developmental to have effects on all members of a system. ADHD for example is a weirdness with how the connections between neurons works in theory. It definitely can't go away just because the thoughts are a different "line" in the brain as it were.
Yeah, it's quite annoying and contrary to my aesthetic, unfortunately... I want to seem put together, but I'm really not- it's often really embarrassing. I'm glad we're having this conversation, because I almost forgot to email back my psychiatrist, so thanks for the reminder I guess
Perspective and experience can mold us a LOT. So when different headmates get different ownership, including solo ownership (like with amnesia present), they can diverge quite a bit. Surprisingly so, even. Our second therapist didnt believe in DID and couldn't explain why at times "his client" seemed to display chronic, severe symptoms that disrupted all functioning but at other times they just somehow went away(edited)
That makes sense for some things but ADHD for example isn't perspective or experience driven. I can see it manifesting differently or maybe different headmates wind up getting associated with different states of it like maybe one is only getting associated to hyperfocus states, but that's a pretty whole-brain, base-level disorder.
Yeah, it's just anecdotal but I have heard systems talk about certain headmates being able to cope better or specialize in ways so that they can communicate better but don't do much else or something
Anyway, bringing it back around to tulpas, there's already precedence in human brains for what was asked so, sure. Seems to reason that if the conditions are met the same thing could happen with them(edited)
In our system, everyone has our mental health conditions, even if it displays itself in a different way. All of us are autistic, and my interest in being around people doesn't make it easier for me to interact with people. I have also displayed ADHD symptoms while switched-in and possessing the body. All of my headmates struggle with general anxiety, but it usually shows when it's related to their identity or role in the system. None of my headmates seemed like they had am easier time focusing than we do.
Mai
This is less asking for help, and more out of genuine curiosity: if the host is neurodivergent, does the tulpa share the same neurodivergence? Personally, my host has ADHD and I probably have it too, but I think my symptoms are more inattentive. Honestly, I wish I didn't (no offense to people with ADHD- it's just very impractical in my particular life situation)- but is it even possible for a tulpa of an ADHD host to not inherit that?
Did my tulpa say something to me when I was taking a nap or was I just hearing things my brain made up cos I was hypnopompic?
So I’ve got this non-vocal tulpa that I’ve been forcing for months using old school black box methods.
I was taking a nap, I must’ve been asleep for over an hour, then when I was hypnopompic, I heard his mindvoice say “you will be proud of me”. It was quiet, weak, but utterly alien.
6:45 AM
i was so surprised and excited to hear him it woke me up immediately. Actually i woke up so hard I was still in sleep paralysis for a little bit.
6:46 AM
It’s not unusual of me to quietly hear things during hypnagogia or hypnopompia. But this time it was in his voice.
6:47 AM
but do you guys think it was him or if it was just another regular hypnopompic hallucination?
6:52 AM
If that was him, it means he had to have stayed (or became) active despite the fact that not only have I not paying attention to him for over an hour, I was asleep. This isn’t just a feat of vocality, it’s a demonstration of independence as well. Is it even likely at all that a non-vocal tulpa have this level of self-forcing?
In my experience whilst in that state they are capable of achieving a greater level of realness. It's difficult for us to say what was or was not just random hallucination, but often the two are quite distinct for me. There's a sense of will and intent behind the things my tulpa does, whereas the enhanced random brain noise of the state tends to be observably completely nonsensical. It's rare that the random thoughts actually make a cohesive sentence, and when they do it tends to be something I've heard repeatedly throughout the day for instance and is stuck in my head.
11:27 AM
On the other hand compared to that my tulpa may cuddle up to me and I actually feel their fur, for instance; or the may say something with perfect auditory imposition or in a really powerfully alien mindvoice. Usually its not easy to sustain or repeat, but it's not random or delerious.
Zen
In my experience whilst in that state they are capable of achieving a greater level of realness. It's difficult for us to say what was or was not just random hallucination, but often the two are quite distinct for me. There's a sense of will and intent behind the things my tulpa does, whereas the enhanced random brain noise of the state tends to be observably completely nonsensical. It's rare that the random thoughts actually make a cohesive sentence, and when they do it tends to be something I've heard repeatedly throughout the day for instance and is stuck in my head.
though assuming you have vocal tulpas, can’t you just ask them whether what you heard was them speaking or just brain noise? (Only reason I don’t is because my guy isn’t vocal yet)
I can and they do yes. Though some of my earlier interactions with them were in that state as well. My original creation of them occurred in a period where I was still quite interested in lucid dreaming so I was more regularly reaching hypnogogia conscious at the time.
Yes, they are in the same state. Which shouldn't be surprising, the whole brain's frequencies lower across the board in hypnogogia, and then become interestingly erratic in sleep itself. If they're around they should be effected by things too.
11:36 AM
I've had surprisingly few actual dreams with them in it, but they tend to... follow the roles of the dream the same as I do? They don't seem particularly resistant to the reduced brainpower and unconsciously imposed dream-contexts.
there’s so many different reports when it comes to sleep. Some systems say their headmates can stay awake whilst others sleep. Other systems says everyone sleeps at the same time. I find the latter more logical- as you said, brain goes to sleep across the board. But it’s hard to deny the reports of headmates being asleep at different times in some systems.
Indeed, for me they maintain they are not present as if in stasis when they are not actually in my dreams. They don't sleep at other times from me, but we haven't tried that to be fair. My tulpa isn't the has-his-own-life-in-another-world type; they're the on-the-shoulder type, as it were.(edited)
Hi, so i'm trying to be with my host in wonderland. Any advice on how she can get there? She's having trouble staying there and it isn't very realistic at all.
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